He has toured Madrid looking into the eyes of hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans—»my children,» he calls them—who filled events, tributes and, last Saturday, a Puerta del Sol overflowing with the diaspora.

Has not met with Pedro Sanchezshe herself has ruled it out. But the coincidence of her visit with the three summits of the Latin American left and the Global Progressive Mobilization that the President of the Government organized in Barcelona while she was visiting Madrid has «made clear», without the need for words, the reason for her refusal.

This Monday he leaves Spain, to prepare his «very soon return» to Venezuela. First, he demands an immediate step: the release of «all political prisoners.»

That supposed amnesty approved by Delcy and Jorge Rodríguez it seems incomplete. Although, deep down, he believes that the regime «is following instructions.»

Whose? Of the same United States whose president, donald trumpis «the only one who put the lives of its citizens at stake» for Venezuelan freedom. He did it on January 3, with the operation to capture Nicolas Maduro in Fort Tuina.

For the tyrant, today in a New York prison, and the rest of the leaders with their hands stained with blood there will be no forgiveness. With others, he says, we will have to start with a clean slate.

Who is María Corina Machado? A symbol?

I am a Venezuelan who loves her country and I only manage to live in freedom. I have decided to dedicate my life to leaving my children, and the millions of children that I have today, a Venezuela in which they feel proud to be Venezuelans.

And who is Delcy Rodríguez? A necessary evil?

It represents chaos, violence, hatred. And the past.

There has been little news from Venezuela for a long time, little more than the policies of Delcy Rodríguez, supposedly managed from the United States and always incomplete, such as that incomplete amnesty law. In that sense, Who is Donald Trump and who is Marco Rubio?

I have to say that there is a lot of news coming from Venezuela!

«A symbol? I am a Venezuelan who loves her country and only manages to live in freedom»

Less and less… only of alleged openings of the regime, which then remain half done.

But it is important that I say it, because the regime has made a great effort to impose a narrative that overwhelming everything, taking over spaces… when the reality of what is happening is a country that is waking up!

Last weekend there were more than 150 events, protests, rallies, assemblies. This was unthinkable four months ago, unthinkable. And now we are seeing how the country is once again beginning to take up space.

When will you return to Venezuela? Jorge Rodríguez has promised him prison, as soon as he sets foot on Venezuelan soil. Is it necessary that, first, the regime begins to ‘commit suicide’, as happened in the Spanish Transition?

I feel that the regime is carrying out instructions and that a process of dismantling the repressive structure and the structure of corruption has already begun. Some audit elements with greater control are beginning to be added.

What do they have left? Yes, the threat. But at this point, there is no threat that can stop a country that decided to be free. And I will return as soon as I finish completing the tasks I set for myself when I left Venezuela.

What are they…

One is this, being able to see each other face to face.

Yes, but this Monday you are leaving.

And see ourselves with many people. Remember that I have been without permission to leave the country for more than 12 years. So, that crowd that I had never touched in my life, that we had not seen each other’s eyes! So… the personal relationship is irreplaceable.

I’m working on aligning all the vectors around an ordered transition. I have met with people from the productive, financial, technological, and energy sectors. And I have shown you the plans. We are working with multilateral actors and, of course, political actors from across the ideological spectrum. Because in the end, Venezuela has been and must be more of a global cause every day.

Is a possible amnesty for Diosdado Cabello, Padrino López, Tareck El Aissami… in those plans?

Of course, guarantees will have to be offered. In fact, we have already done it publicly, and also through private channels. Moving towards a transition process will require that all Venezuelans make commitments.

Now, crimes against humanity do not prescribe. And those who have committed them must face justice.

«Commitments will have to be made in the transition, but crimes against humanity do not prescribe; there will be no amnesty for those who committed them»

Is the plan drawn up, is there a work team, and leaders who do not transcend the media, designing the free and democratic Venezuela of tomorrow, hand in hand with the United States?

There are expert leaders, and activists on the ground. Even within government institutions and also outside the country. With them, we have been preparing for years what is going to be the total reconstruction of Venezuela. And of course, we want to do it in coordination with the United States and with many other long-term partners.

Because Venezuela is a unique opportunity, not only for investment and business, but also for hemispheric security, for democracy. And so, we can also facilitate the preparation of what will be the return of millions of our emigrants to the country.

What role are other opposition leaders going to play who are not at that table today? Juan Guaidó. Henrique Capriles. Leopoldo Lopez…

It’s just that everyone… each person is different. I believe that today the level of cohesion and coordination in the leadership of the democratic forces is enormous. And in fact, during these months of terror, the regime tried to bankrupt many people through blackmail, threats and offers. And they didn’t succeed.

It is very sad, but history has shown that there are always some who give in to temptations or pressures, but they are the immense minority. The majority of the leadership, from the base to the national leadership, are united with a single focus, which is the freedom and democracy of our country.

And what role does Ismael García play in that transformation?

Like many other leaders, Ismael has extensive experience. Know the monster inside, as they say. And of course, he has understood the enormous damage that the system caused the country from day one.

Therefore, knowing Him, you can have the authority to speak to those who may remain confused today.

Do you have information about progress in the investigation in the New York Prosecutor’s Office into the alleged businesses of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero that ‘Pollo’ Carvajal would have denounced?

I’m not going to speculate on information, which I don’t know…

I was asking him if he has it.

Until they are confirmed by Justice itself, I prefer not to address them.

Let me put the criticism in front of you, so that you can defend yourself. ‘María Corina only meets with Feijóo, Abascal, Ayuso and Almeida.’ Do you only allow yourself to be entertained by right-wing people, here in Spain?

You will tell me if Felipe González is right-wing.

They call him ‘facha’.

Ah well, imagine!

‘María Corina says she speaks in the name of democracy and freedom, but she refuses to meet with Pedro Sánchez.’ Do your alliances with Trump prevent you from doing so?

First of all, who I meet and who I don’t meet, I decide

I made it from another node. If the President of the Spanish Government offered you a discreet, private, sincere meeting today, would you accept?

I have already said it, there are meetings that are appropriate at certain times and not at others. And everything, everything I do today in my public life, goes through a sieve, through a filter: whether it favors and accelerates the transition in Venezuela or not. And based on that evaluation I made the decision not to do it.

So, I can legitimately understand that a meeting with Pedro Sánchez, harms…

But that has not happened. And I’m leaving [risas].

Okay… Pedro Sánchez also boasts of having opened Spain to hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans. However, he did not receive the acting president, Juan Guaidó, in 2020. He allowed the president-elect, Edmundo González, to be extorted for 48 hours at the residence of the Spanish ambassador in Caracas so that he would leave. He didn’t congratulate you on the Nobel Prize…

I feel that it is very clear. One thing is one thing and another thing is another thing.

He says he is «on the right side of History» and you have said that «History will judge him.»

‘Explain to me’, as García Pelayo said [risas]. Without a doubt, the Spanish Government, in different periods, has not only offered openness, but has welcomed thousands and thousands of compatriots. It is something that I recognize and appreciate. I always will.

Now, indeed, as you say, there are opaque, unclear and inconvenient episodes. And indeed, I have information that others do not have. But until it is verified and the whole truth is not known, I am not going to make any judgments about it.

«President of the country? I will be what Venezuelans say, freedom is being achieved by an entire generation»

Nine years ago, I interviewed her and then Trump was in office, in his first term. Already then she was accused of instigating a US military intervention in her country. You never said ‘I want it, I ask for it’, but you did say ‘maybe it’s necessary’. Was this intervention on January 3 to capture Nicolás Maduro a necessary evil or was it a good that required external help?

You know I hear you… ‘they accuse you, you are accused…’ I have a friend who tells me that if I throw the Penal Code on the ground, a page opens, whatever it may be, and…

There is something for María Corina!

I already have it. I have that crime! [risas] For many years, we alerted the world to the nature of the regime that was being formed in Venezuela and the risk it represented for Venezuelans and the world. We said ‘it is a criminal system, we must apply the law, international justice, starting by cutting off the flows of criminal money that reach it for corruption, for repression, to impose silence and persecution and to increase its own criminal businesses.’

And the truth is that Donald Trump, through actions like this one in the operation in the Caribbean and others linked to the oil and gold black market, has been cutting off that flow of funds. And the only head of state who has risked the life of one of his citizens for the freedom of our country. And it is something that we appreciate and will recognize, always.

How often do you talk to Donald Trump?

The truth is that it is less than we would both like.

And ever with Pedro Sánchez?

I have never spoken with Pedro Sánchez in my life.

Will you be president of Venezuela?

What Venezuelans say.

If history judges you as the architect of Venezuelan freedom, what personal chapter do you regret most from these 25 years of struggle?

It wouldn’t be fair. And we will write history with justice.

The architect of Venezuela’s freedom has been an extraordinary generation of citizens. Some of us grew up in democracy, and we took it for granted. Others grew up without it, and their parents, meaning us, taught them that lesson. And I have never seen a generation better prepared to build the institutions that will preserve democracy in Venezuela forever.

I hope we see it very soon.

That’s what it will be like. And I will welcome you in Venezuela next time.

It will be an honor. Thank you very much, María Corina. And luck.